Cheap alternative to own a 300mm F2.8

[Arthur]

Was having kopi session with a client this late afternoon at Funan and came across a Tokina AT-X 300mm f/2.8 len (Canon mount) with the price tag of $2,950.00 displaying in the window showcase at TCW (The Camera Workshop). Just passed by the shop so dunno how the quality and performance of this len....

Interested bros can go down 'see look & test drive' the len :D Hope this cheaper alternative will help those to make their dream come true of owning a 300mm f/2.8 without burning a big hole in their pockets :D

Cheers

[Mervin]

hahahahaha !!!
that would cos some ppls heart to pound !!!!

have fun !

cheers
:p

[Iceman27]

The only "wierd" thing about this lens is that I've seen it in the showcase for a very long time already... :dunno:

Cheers!

[nickmak]

Oh, I think the Tokina 300mm f2.8 is the only lens of its kind to have the slowest AF and the front element rotates I think... (This is from a review on www.photographyreview.com)

[Arthur]

Thanks for the feedback and info about this len guys....I think I will erase it from my end year upgrading list ;)

Cheers

[nickmak]

Thanks for the feedback and info about this len guys....I think I will erase it from my end year upgrading list ;)

Cheers
Hey bro Arthur,

UPGRADE! BUY BUY BUY!!! Mwahahahahaha.... hehe...

Why not try for the Sigma 300 f2.8? I heard that its comparable to the OEM 300mm f2.8s... :)

Cheers,
Nick

[L.Lee]

wah $2950! :sweat: I have been considering the bigma [$1700] for almost
3 months now and still thinking :thinking:
How much is that Sigma 300 f2.8?

[Arthur]

wah $2950! :sweat: I have been considering the bigma [$1700] for almost
3 months now and still thinking :thinking:
How much is that Sigma 300 f2.8?

Lee, you may want to consider the 300mm f/2.8 primes instead of bigma. I think the Sigma is selling US$2k++. I am seriously considering getting this or a Tarmon or a Tokina 300mm f/2.8. From the info I have gathered from the internet, all of them received quite a good reviews and feedbacks. I a bit heartache to buy the Canon 300mm f/2.8 IS coz it's price tag is on the high side.

Cheers

[Arthur]

Oh, I think the Tokina 300mm f2.8 is the only lens of its kind to have the slowest AF and the front element rotates I think... (This is from a review on www.photographyreview.com)

Yo bro nick,

The review about this prime at photographyreview seem like not bad leh....the users are very happy with their purchases.

Cheers

[nickmak]

Yo bro nick,

The review about this prime at photographyreview seem like not bad leh....the users are very happy with their purchases.

Cheers
Heya bro,

I saw a review that the Tokina was very very slow at achieving focus and the front element rotates. It was compared to the other lenses of its type. They mentioned that image quality was pretty good too. I think there is a comparison of the lenses on the March 05 issue of Practical Photography.

OT: You got your DSLR now already? :)

Cheers!
Nick

[Arthur]

Heya bro,

I saw a review that the Tokina was very very slow at achieving focus and the front element rotates. It was compared to the other lenses of its type. They mentioned that image quality was pretty good too. I think there is a comparison of the lenses on the March 05 issue of Practical Photography.

OT: You got your DSLR now already? :)

Cheers!
Nick

Yo bro nick,

Haven't got the body or body w/kit yet coz I find it pointless to buy the DSLR if I can't afford to get my dream prime at the moment....still on roti diets to save up for the len. :(

Cheers

[nickmak]

Yo bro nick,

Haven't got the body or body w/kit yet coz I find it pointless to buy the DSLR if I can't afford to get my dream prime at the moment....still on roti diets to save up for the len. :(

Cheers
Hai ya bro, when you need to borrow a lens, can ask the friendly people here! :) I'm sure some of us would be quite happy for you to borrow it for a while so no need to worry about your roti diet. If you need to borrow anything, just ask! :) :)

[John]

Heya bro,

I saw a review that the Tokina was very very slow at achieving focus and the front element rotates. It was compared to the other lenses of its type. They mentioned that image quality was pretty good too. I think there is a comparison of the lenses on the March 05 issue of Practical Photography.

OT: You got your DSLR now already? :)

Cheers!
Nick

Guys..just to share ..I happend to buy the tokina 80-400mm lens..the truth is that i dont quite like this lens...reasons being ;

1) very very very very slow in AF..
2) Hunts too much
3) Dammed noisy lens..
4) The built not robust
5) optical quality so so only..

In fact i always recommend original lens..the lens quality is always better than 3rd party..and the len's SLD coating will be better and last longer..

voice down to that ..planned your budget buy a lens you want once and for all and dont try to keep upgarding ..its a waste of money..i am one very good example.. :blah:

[joeyao]

Guys..just to share ..I happend to buy the tokina 80-400mm lens..the truth is that i dont quite like this lens...reasons being ;

1) very very very very slow in AF..
2) Hunts too much
3) Dammed noisy lens..
4) The built not robust
5) optical quality so so only..

In fact i always recommend original lens..the lens quality is always better than 3rd party..and the len's SLD coating will be better and last longer..

voice down to that ..planned your budget buy a lens you want once and for all and dont try to keep upgarding ..its a waste of money..i am one very good example.. :blah:
Agree with you totally. No third party lenses for me.

[John]

Agree with you totally. No third party lenses for me.

Joe.. I need to loan some cash from u leh..can bo.. :drool:

[Garion]

<snip>

In fact i always recommend original lens..the lens quality is always better than 3rd party..and the len's SLD coating will be better and last longer..

voice down to that ..planned your budget buy a lens you want once and for all and dont try to keep upgarding ..its a waste of money..i am one very good example.. :blah:Well spoken my friend, and totally agree with you on this (especially the bolded parts). :thumb: Same boat with you too, been there, done that. Have changed thru two lenses before settling on my current 300mm f2.8, and even that may have to go in favour of a longer prime. For birds, reach is everything.

[John]

Well spoken my friend, and totally agree with you on this (especially the bolded parts). :thumb: Same boat with you too, been there, done that. Have changed thru two lenses before settling on my current 300mm f2.8, and even that may have to go in favour of a longer prime. For birds, reach is everything.


Garion...300mm is good enough..think what u need is to get tc's..

tc20 = 600mm and if u stacked tc14 by tc 20 = 600mm x1.4 = 720mm and dont forget...ur cameras crop factor + mobility for hand-holding ? :lol:

[Garion]

Garion...300mm is good enough..think what u need is to get tc's..

tc20 = 600mm and if u stacked tc14 by tc 20 = 600mm x1.4 = 720mm and dont forget...ur cameras crop factor + mobility for hand-holding ? :lol:I find for birding 300mm is much too short most of the time...and yes I have the 2x TC almost permanently mounted at the back of the lens. Even then its still not long enough reach more than 50% of the time, cropping factor included. I find I usually have to further crop the image to get a decent subject size eventually.

I find I am not as adept as joeyao at stacking the 1.4x and 2x TCs together and still get a decent result. This combo slows the AF down by quite a bit (lots of hunting) and I only use it when in very good lighting conditions.

E.g of a stacked TCs shot (300mm + 1.4x + 2x, image cropped, resize and sharpen):

Sorry, this content is visible to registered members only.

[John]

I find for birding 300mm is much too short most of the time...and yes I have the 2x TC almost permanently mounted at the back of the lens. Even then its still not long enough reach more than 50% of the time, cropping factor included. I find I usually have to further crop the image to get a decent subject size eventually.

Great shot man.... :drool:

Try this....

http://search.ebay.com/600-2000mm-Super-Telephoto-Zoom-Lens_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40QQsatitleZ600-2000mmQ20SuperQ20TelephotoQ20Q5AoomQ20Lens

[nickmak]

Bro Garion, its time to BUY BUY BUY!!! Keke... :)

[Garion]

John, thats a really big lens... :eek:

Nick, patience....it will come eventually... :)

Btw this is also an interesting thread talking about the 300mm f2.8 w/ teleconverters...Joe u might wanna take a look too.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/210923

[joeyao]

E.g of a stacked TCs shot (300mm + 1.4x + 2x, image cropped, resize and sharpen):

Sorry, this content is visible to registered members only.Wow :eek: this is one solid shot using stacked TCs with the 300mm f2.8! I am convinced this is THE lens for me even though it hasn't got enough reach. But I am willing to trade reach with less weight and less $$$ ;)

[Mervin]

so what is the current "market" price for a 300 f2.8 right now ???

[harlequin2902]

so what is the current "market" price for a 300 f2.8 right now ???I did ask the guys at Cathay Photo during my last visit a few weeks ago. Was quoted S$7850.00 nett for the Nikon AF-S 300mm f/2.8D IF-ED II.

[harlequin]

I would go for a 500mm F4 anytime compared to a 300mm F2.8. Stacking TCs won't do any good.

[Arthur]

Considering of the following 2 reasons and valued advices from steven, john, bro nick and others, think I might as well settle for the Canon 400mm f/5.6 L prime + Tarmon 1.4TC instead of a brand new Canon 300mm f/2.8 L IS or w/o IS (unless I can get a very good bargain for a 2nd hand one):

Price: $7K++ (almost the same price as Nikon) is a bit out of my budget range due to involvement with other financial commitments and I'm also planning to pursue some post-graduate courses by end of the year....so money a bit not enough.

Weight: anything above the weight of the 300mm f/2.8 will be quite stressful for my back coz I have serious back problem (kena last time during army training).

My cheapo cam doesn't has any crop factor but I quite comfortable with it and my combo only give me 914mm (35mm equivalent). So let say if I have a 20D (1.6X crop factor) + 400mm + 1.4X TC, that will give me the reach of 896mm which I think its quite alright for me. Guess I will need to practise more on my approaching skill :(

Cheers

[joeyao]

I would go for a 500mm F4 anytime compared to a 300mm F2.8. Stacking TCs won't do any good.Agree with you totally if all things being equal.

Considering of the following 2 reasons and valued advices from steven, john, bro nick and others, think I might as well settle for the Canon 400mm f/5.6 L prime + Tarmon 1.4TC instead of a brand new Canon 300mm f/2.8 L IS or w/o IS (unless I can get a very good bargain for a 2nd hand one):

Price: $7K++ (almost the same price as Nikon) is a bit out of my budget range due to involvement with other financial commitments and I'm also planning to pursue some post-graduate courses by end of the year....so money a bit not enough.

Weight: anything above the weight of the 300mm f/2.8 will be quite stressful for my back coz I have serious back problem (kena last time during army training).

My cheapo cam doesn't has any crop factor but I quite comfortable with it and my combo only give me 914mm (35mm equivalent). So let say if I have a 20D (1.6X crop factor) + 400mm + 1.4X TC, that will give me the reach of 896mm which I think its quite alright for me. Guess I will need to practise more on my approaching skill :(

CheersYou forgot to factor in the f stop. Your FZ10 is f2.8 throughout the zoom range. The EF 400mm f5.6 will be stopped down to approximately f8 when a 1.4X TC is attached and the 20D will not AF beyond f5.6. Trust me, if money is an issue, go for the 300mm f4 IS with a 1.4X TC. You will get effective 672mm on the 20D with AF. For me the 300mm f2.8 will be my ultimate lens because of my back problem and $$$. Of course harlequin has a point if $$$ and weight is not an issue.

[Garion]

I did ask the guys at Cathay Photo during my last visit a few weeks ago. Was quoted S$7850.00 nett for the Nikon AF-S 300mm f/2.8D IF-ED II.Sam,

There are a couple of used 300mm f2.8 (1 AFS I and 1 AFI) lying around at ALex Photo and CamX at Peninsula Plaza and Peninsula Shopping Centre (where TCW is). The one at CamX is retailing for $4888. Fyi. :)

[Garion]

so what is the current "market" price for a 300 f2.8 right now ???If you are referring to original lens, depending on the model, age and condition, the price ranges from around $3k+ for a very beat up non-IS Canon 300mm f2.8L, to around $4k for a good condition one, I've seen nearly mint ones go for around $4.5k. The IS one is much more expensive, not sure of 2nd hand market price but new ones is around $8k I think. Joe can clarify as he had asked abt local prices b4.

[joeyao]

If you are referring to original lens, depending on the model, age and condition, the price ranges from around $3k+ for a very beat up non-IS Canon 300mm f2.8L, to around $4k for a good condition one, I've seen nearly mint ones go for around $4.5k. The IS one is much more expensive, not sure of 2nd hand market price but new ones is around $8k I think. Joe can clarify as he had asked abt local prices b4.MS Color quoted me $7675, CP was $7800. Canon Singapore said they sell this lens to one dealer only. I guess MS Color takes from CP.

[Mervin]

I would go for a 500mm F4 anytime compared to a 300mm F2.8. Stacking TCs won't do any good.


i just cannot disagree with you on the choice of a 500mm or even a 600mm over anything else that is shorter for bird photography.

however there are issues with alot of ppl over this choice.

the weight issue - not all of us have the muscles or wheels to transport these monster lenses, quite a few of us do actually take public transport to shooting sites.

price tag - i guess that explains itself.
500/600 are very tempting lenses but these beauties are beyond, at least not in my reach in the near future.

therefore for those forunate ones who own these lovely lens, please shoot more and share your stunning pics wth the rest.

have fun !!!!!
:p

cheers

[harlequin]

i just cannot disagree with you on the choice of a 500mm or even a 600mm over anything else that is shorter for bird photography.

however there are issues with alot of ppl over this choice.

the weight issue - not all of us have the muscles or wheels to transport these monster lenses, quite a few of us do actually take public transport to shooting sites.

price tag - i guess that explains itself.
500/600 are very tempting lenses but these beauties are beyond, at least not in my reach in the near future.

therefore for those forunate ones who own these lovely lens, please shoot more and share your stunning pics wth the rest.

have fun !!!!!
:p

cheers

Understand that point about price.

If you look at the weight between a 300mm F2.8 and 500mm F4, not really alot of difference.

From Canon website :

300mm F2.8 IS : Weight : 2550g

500mm F4 IS : Weight : 3870g

600mm F4 IS : Weight : 5360g

Nikon

300mm F2.8 VR : Weight : 2590g

500mm F4 : Weight : 3454g

600mm F4 : Weight : 4853g

If you are seriously looking at a long focal length prime lens, a 500mm F4 will definately offer better price/performance/focal length as compared to a 300mm F2.8 with TCs.

I used to own a Sigma 120-300mm F2.8 with both the 1.4TC and 2X TC.

It was good for the price and performance. But once you stack TCs, you lose alot in terms of AF on non-pro bodies, picture quality.

With both the 1.4TC and 2X TC stacked together, you will need a very hot sun with lots of light to get things going. :D

Seriously, consider carefully. With hides like cars or tents, 300mm with 2x TC do require very close camera to subject distance.

If one is going to S$7800 for a new 30mm F2.8, better consider seriosly.

Not trying to steer or turn off any body, the amount of money plunged into that new 300mm F2.8 can be diverted into a proper 500mm F4 if possible.

Of course, unless you are someone who is more comfortable shooting in gardens, zoos & bird parks.

End of the day, choice is yours.

Bet you that WKCheah is now one happy bird with that 2nd hand 600mm F4. Righto Jonathan ?

Cheers !

[Garion]

Wow :eek: this is one solid shot using stacked TCs with the 300mm f2.8! I am convinced this is THE lens for me even though it hasn't got enough reach. But I am willing to trade reach with less weight and less $$$ ;)Thanks Joe. For me, I feel that stacking TCs is more of a hit or miss affair, sometimes the results are really stunning, like this one, other times they turn out disappointingly soft. A lot depends too on the correct techniques being used, a tripod and cable release are mandatory to get the best results. And lots of light too!

i just cannot disagree with you on the choice of a 500mm or even a 600mm over anything else that is shorter for bird photography.

however there are issues with alot of ppl over this choice.

the weight issue - not all of us have the muscles or wheels to transport these monster lenses, quite a few of us do actually take public transport to shooting sites.

price tag - i guess that explains itself.
500/600 are very tempting lenses but these beauties are beyond, at least not in my reach in the near future.
Mervin,

Agree with the points you made, those are indeed valid arguments. That is why lenses like the 300mm f2.8 offer an attractive "go-between" solution for those not willing to or cannot afford to get these monster lenses. Under skilled hands, the 300mm f2.8 coupled with 2x TC can produce some superb shots (Fred for e.g is a master of this combo). The only problem is reach, which can be overcome by shooting from a vehicle, using a portable hide or simply employ good stalking skills.

Weight and size of these big teles is also a big problem for those who are not blessed with a set of wheels, it is truly a PITA (pain in the ass) to lug that big tube of glass in crowded MRT trains or buses, you have to occupy two seats, one for yourself, the other for your big lens + tripod. (And you get strange stares from ppl too.) :lol:

Price factor too is one of the main deterrence. Many amature nature photographers, despite their passion for the subject, would inwardly baulk at spending such a huge chunk of cash on a single glass, especially if you are not earning from the photos that you take, unlike in the US or other countries, there isn't a market or demand here for nature photos. Buying a lens just to use it once or twice a week really doesn't seem to justify and balance out such high costs.

In the long run, lets face it, bird photography is definitely not cheap, but that doesn't mean anyone with a limited budget can't enjoy it. A combination of skills, knowledge of birds and familiarisation with your equipment all contribute to the end product, regardless of what equipment you use. I'm pleased to say, the spirit & attitude of the photographers here is very encouraging, and ppl like Sam, Arthur and Joe have proven that with the right attitude, and application of knowledge, great results can be achieved regardless of type of equipment used.

No doubt that the 500/600 is what most of us here really aspire to, but we have to keep reminding ourselves too that its the end results that count. :)

Hhahaha looks like I made a valid argument to myself not to get a big tele lens. :p

[Jeff]

No doubt that the 500/600 is what most of us here really aspire to, but we have to keep reminding ourselves too that its the end results that count. :)



Couldn't agree more :) I chose the 300 over the longer 500/600. Why? If I can't master a 300, what good would a 500/600 do? Teleconverters? Only use them once in a blue moon or when I want to make "that" pix. Otherwise, it's always in my dry cabi. :p

Make the pix, and not let the equipment dictates your direction. You will see the light much sooner. And happier too. ;)

[harlequin]

Couldn't agree more :) I chose the 300 over the longer 500/600. Why? If I can't master a 300, what good would a 500/600 do? Teleconverters? Only use them once in a blue moon or when I want to make "that" pix. Otherwise, it's always in my dry cabi. :p

Make the pix, and not let the equipment dictates your direction. You will see the light much sooner. And happier too. ;)
ok...then go get the Greater Painted Snipe with a 300mm lor

[Jeff]

ok...then go get the Greater Painted Snipe with a 300mm lor


:blah: :blah: :lol:

Seriously, Arthur, build-up your knowledge and skills as you grow. Birding can be a hobby, as well as a science. If it makes u feel inadequate along the way, then something is amiss in your learning curve.

Harlequin is right. But it really boils down to how u use the lens, what u use it for, not what others have I want too. Knowing your strengths and weaknesses is much better that just following the crowd.

And who knows maybe someday this hobby will just disappear totally. That what I told myself and till this day it still holds true. :lol:

[Garion]

Guys, thanks for your frank views and opinions, it is truly very interesting to hear from so many different viewpoints and perspectives from all round....at the end of the day, everyone has his or her own ideal perception of what is the best equipment to be used, there is no one lens to fit all. We all hunger for a 1000mm f2.8 IS/VR lens which is the size and weight of a 70-200 f2.8, and costing below $1k, but in real life that is not possible, so we all make do with what we have.

Desirable though the big glass may be, it may not factor in everyone's plans for birding equipment, due to cost, weight, size and other real world factors. I'm sure most of you know this already, but there is stuff outside of bird photography that has higher priority for the hard earned cash.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to buying your equipment according to your needs and your budget.

[joeyao]

Before taking up bird photography, I was an amateur astronomer and there was a saying: "The best telescope is the one that you will use most". I drooled over the 8" scope but finally settled for the 5" due to its lighter weight and hence better portability even though the 8" gave sharper and brighter images at high magnifications. Similarly the 600mm is the ultimate lens but if I can't carry it around often due to my back problem and I am hitting 50 soon, I would just settle for the 300mm f2.8 which I know I will be able to manage. I agree with harlequin and I also agree with Jeff and Garion. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that you enjoy the hobby within your limitations.

[Arthur]

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for the valuable feedbacks, greatly appreciated. :) As mentioned, the 3 main reasons why I am thinking of adding the Canon 400mm f5.6 in my year end upgrading list are:

Weight: Me also suffering from back injury...tried carrying both WK's 600mm f/4 before....too stressful for my back and Garion's 300mm f2.8 (just nice);

Price: Initally thinking of other brands 300mm f2.8, but chicken out after some serious consideration and the Canon ones are too X (also got some foreseen financial comments to settle)

Len itself: Just take a look at those wonderful photos taken from this len by Arthur Morris and Liquidstone (400 + Tarmon 1.4X TC and handheld somemore)....a picture speaks a thousand words.

Once again, thanks all for your valuable inputs :thumb:

Cheers

[nickmak]

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for the valuable feedbacks, greatly appreciated. :) As mentioned, the 3 main reasons why I am thinking of adding the Canon 400mm f5.6 in my year end upgrading list are:

Weight: Me also suffering from back injury...tried carrying both WK's 600mm f/4 before....too stressful for my back and Garion's 300mm f2.8 (just nice);

Price: Initally thinking of other brands 300mm f2.8, but chicken out after some serious consideration and the Canon ones are too X (also got some foreseen financial comments to settle)

Len itself: Just take a look at those wonderful photos taken from this len by Arthur Morris and Liquidstone (400 + Tarmon 1.4X TC and handheld somemore)....a picture speaks a thousand words.

Once again, thanks all for your valuable inputs :thumb:

Cheers
Well bro, its time to BUY BUY BUY eh? :) Hope to see you soon!